Posts by Cold Steel

20

Falling asleep whilst praying..

by punkofnice in

when i believed in jehovah(tm), i'd pray to him at night.

i'd doze off.. i remember admonition from the podium that it was disrespectful to doze off during our personal prayers to imaginary sky god jehovah(tm).. i'd wake up.

say sorry to jehovah(tm) then either carry on grovelling or just end it.. one thing's for sure, asleep or awake, pray or not it makes no difference........no one's listening!.

Cold Steel

I thought this thread would be discussing falling asleep while praying, not a Jehovah bash. Many of you have some real anger management issues, which I find unfortunate, but understandable.

As for prayer, it helps if you have a certain place like a dressing room or large closet where you can kneel and go to in time of need. If you'r4e married, you might also want to pray vocally with your wife, followed by private prayers. Also, I wouldn't pray to Jehovah. Yahweh is not the Father, but Christ, and we shouldn't pray to Christ, but rather, the Father. Jesus addressed him as "Father," so why should we do any different? Even if Jehovah was the Father, addressing him by his name would be like calling your father by his first name. In fact, there is no place in scripture where anyone prays directly to God calling him by a personal name.

Years ago there was a book entitled, How to Pray and Stay Awake. If you pray while you're lying in bed, you're much more likely to fall asleep. It's like snacking. Put some Cracker Jacks boxes by the sofa facing the television and *POOF!" -- they're gone! It's not a great way to diet. My dressing room is the ideal place for me to pray. Oh, and don't pray in the basement as sometimes the prayers begin to rise and bounce off of the main floor. It'll eventually get to God, but it may float around the ceiling for awhile until it finds a crack or the stairs.

51

If ARMAGEDDON Came, Would YOU Repent?

by Cold Steel in

the day finally comes.

you get up one day with the nagging feeling that it's going to be different.

you get dressed, get in the car, then notice how dark the weather's getting.

Cold Steel

The day finally comes. You get up one day with the nagging feeling that it's going to be different. You get dressed, get in the car, then notice how dark the weather's getting. And though it looks ominous, you drive into work, park and go inside. You see small groups of employees are centered around small televison sets. Short range telemetry has revealed a series of small asteroids headed for Earth and scientists are appearing on television to try to explain the danger. Their voices are low, but you can hear the concern in their voices. You listen long enough to tell that something crazy is going on, then decide to take off and see if you can locate your girlfriend, Sara.

The first asteroid hits at 9:14 a.m. You can barely hear the talking heads on the radio, as interference is making reception difficult. Then the air raid sirens go off. According to a news report, just coming in, several nations have declared war on each other and a nuclear device already had been detonated in Syria. In fact, Damascus now lies in ruins...and it's spreading.

Armageddon is upon the world. Or is it? As things go from bad to worse, you remember all those things the elders used to tout about the horrendous events that would accompany Armageddon. Now those horrors seem to be happening before your very eyes. Were you crazy leaving the Society at the very moment when they were finally right? Or are the evangelicals right? They've said for years that Jehovah's Witnesses were going to a forever Hell...also those who haven't come to Christ.

What to do? Should you pull over and recite the "sinner's prayer"? Or do you make a bee line to the Kingdom Hall and hope the elders forgive you in time to make good with Jehovah? Or is this all just a coincidental chain of events?

So what do YOU do?

3

Jehovah's Witnesses, size, and the true religion

by Laika in

a lot of the arguments jehovah's witnesses make in favour of their religion can only work because they are a very small religion and are spread so thin.

nowhere in the world do jws make up any kind of majority or even significant minority in any country or city.

considering how jws would have to work with larger populations exposes these arguments, for example:.

Cold Steel

I don't think you have anything to worry about. As soon as the outsiders realized the JWs weren't educated, nor did they encourage it, a barrier would immediately spring up between the Society and the non-JWs. It wouldn't take long for the unbelievers to outclass the believers, and the brighter JWs (the ones who are generally excommunicated) would soon form closer bonds with the unbelievers.

15

JEHOVAH and the TROJAN horse

by Terry in

both men and women and whole nations are destroyed by a single wrong.

the word "yes!".

the cleverness of the wrong is hidden in the camouflage of inverted morality.. willing participation is the entrance.. .

Cold Steel

It's incredible that the Society would so slavishly avoid the word "servant" (which most other translations use, and which most Christians prefer). In the late 1800s, the president of the LDS church put it this way, and I feel the same way:

I was not born a slave! I cannot, will not be a slave. I would not be a slave to God! I would be His servant, His friend, His son. I would go at His behest; but I would not be His slave. I would rather be extinct than be a slave. His friend I feel I am, and He is mine—a slave! The manacles would pierce my very bones—the clanking chains would grate against my soul—a poor, lost, servile, crawling wretch, to lick the dust and fawn and smile upon the thing who gave the lash! ... But stop! I am God's free man; I will not, cannot be a slave!

The very leadership of the Society refer to themselves, not as the "faithful and wise servant," but the "faithful and discreet slave." In truth, who is the faithful and wise servant? It's the faithful man or woman who is ready to meet the Lord at his coming. Jesus was giving a parable, not a prophecy. He was speaking of his return and he said:

Which of you, then, is a faithful and wise servant, one whom his master will entrust with the care of the household, to give them their food at the appointed time? Blessed is that servant who is found doing this when his lord comes; I promise you, he will give him charge of all his goods. But if that servant plays him false, and says in his heart, My lord is long in coming, and so falls to beating his fellow servants, to eating and drinking with the drunkards, then on some day when he expects nothing, at an hour when he is all unaware, his lord will come, and will cut him off, and assign him his portion with the hypocrites; where there will be weeping, and gnashing of teeth. (Knox Bible)

The parable speaks of two servants, the faithful servant and the unfaithful servant. If you're a Christian, you're the faithful servant. Giving the staff their food and minding the house is the duty of each of us. And as John says, if we are faithful, we will become co-heirs with Christ and inherit all that the Father has. As servants, we're expected to feed and cloth the poor and serve our fellow man. And if we do it to the least of our brethren, it is as if we had done it to the Lord himself.

Had Jesus intended to specify an actual group of people, wouldn't he have said so? For the Lord God will do NOTHING, save he shall reveal his secrets to his servants the prophets. (Amos 3:7) And in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. To my knowledge, the Governing Body of the Society has NEVER received one revelation, neither have they EVER seen an angel, or God. But the days of prophets has come and gone, they teach. No one receives revelation as the ancient apostles did.

Really? God called Saul/Paul to be a prophet and apostle after Jesus had been resurrected and ascended to Heaven. If he had a revelation and saw God, why can't people today? John had the greatest revelation ever given at around 96 AD. And in his vision he saw that two prophets (his words, not mine) would be called to minister unto the Jews just prior to the coming of Christ. (See Revelation 11) They will prophesy for three and a half years, then be killed and physically resurrected. Will the Governing Body be their seniors, or will they answer to the two prophets? If I were the GB, I'd declare those two prophets to be figurative prophets, not literal. That way, they won't have to stone them; just reject them and render them "invisible."

The Lord has called us his servants, his children, and his friends. But he doesn't call us his slaves, nor does he prophesy in his parables. That means you have to depend on yourselves, not them. If they have no revelation, then they are the blind leading the blind. Thus if you follow them, you both will fall into the pit. So YOU care for the household, feed those who need feeding and be ready for the Master's return when he comes.

12

Historical Development of the Jesus/Michael Doctrine

by moggy lover in

i have a question about the historical development of the doctrine currently held by the watchtower, specifically about jesus being michael.

i am not interested in a polemic about whether jesus is or is not michael, but rather in how this teaching evolved in the historical development of the watchtower movement.

for instance we know that at least as far back as november 1879, page 4, [reprints page 48] the watchtower was teaching a doctrine contrary to what it currently teaches:.

Cold Steel

It's a popular Adventist doctrine and was taught by Ellen G. White, the prophetess of the Seventh Day Adventist sect. The SDA no longer officially believes that doctrine and it's difficult getting them to even admit they ever believed it. Mrs. White, however, supposedly learned that Jesus was the premortal Michael from her revelatory experiences. In their Clear Word Bible (1994), Mrs. White's teaching made its way into the commentary of Jude 1:9.

First is the scripture from the King James Version:

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. (KJV)

The Clear Word Bible is a version designed to add prophetic interpretation in commentary form:

In contrast to these ungodly men is the Lord Jesus Christ, also called Michael, the archangel in charge of the entire angelic host. When He was challenged by Satan about His intentions to resurrect Moses, He didn't come against Satan with a blistering attack nor did he belittle him. He simply said, 'God rejects your claim to his body. (Clear Word Bible)

Actually, no one knows what the contest with Satan regarding the body of Moses was about, but this is but one account where the Jesus-Michael doctrine was taught. Jack Blanko, onetime dean of Religion at the Southern Adventist University, undoubtedly knew of Mrs. White's teaching and incorporated it into his commentary:

"Michael, or Christ, with the angels that buried Moses...." (Jude 9, Spiritual Gifts, IV a, p. 158)
"And before the context closed Christ Himself came to Gabriel's aid — Gabriel declares 'But lo, Michael, one of the Chief Princes came to help me." (Daniel 10:13, Prophets & Kings, p.572)
"There is none that holdeth with me in these things but Michael (Christ) your prince." (Desire of Ages, p.99)
"Moses passed under the dominion of death — but Christ the Savior brought him forth from the grave." (Jude 9, ibid 379)

That said, they presently deny the doctrine and with good reason. And it would be inaccurate to say that the SDA believe that doctrine today as I've seen in a number of anti-SDA materials. How they can reconcile the teaching with Mrs. White's teachings, however, is another matter. In 1957 the SDA taught: "We believe that the term 'Michael' is but one of the many titles applied to the Son of God, the second person of the Godhead. But such a view does not in any way conflict with our belief in His full deity and eternal pre-existence, nor does it in the least disparage His person and work." (Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine, Review and Herald Publishing Association, Washington D.C., 1957. Chapter 8 "Christ, and Michael the Archangel".)

Today they officially deny the teaching, but a number of stalwarts in the church probably hang onto the doctrine. Mrs. White lived in the late 1800s and unless it originally came from William Miller, it's possible that she was the originator of the doctrine.

47

Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?

by Socrateswannabe in

in acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".

the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).

and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".

Cold Steel

The term "soul" is viewed by many as being both body and spirit together. When God breathed the breath of life into man, man became a living soul. When the spirit departs and "returns" to God, if it is righteous, it goes to Paradise which, again citing Origen, a place of learning or school of the spirits in which everything they experienced on Earth would be made clear to them. It's not the presence of God, neither is it Heaven. After all, Jesus went to Paradise the day he died, but he clearly stated later that he had not yet ascended to Heaven. If Heaven and Paradise are the same, this would be a problem.

I've really tried to understand how the JWs view things, and I have an old ragged copy of a Watchtower magazine with flames on the cover and the word "Armageddon" stretched across the top. I've read the article a number of times hoping I could somehow see a justification between what it said and what the scriptures say about Armageddon. I've yet to find any. The JWs are the Armageddon people, after all. They talk about it, preach it, dread it some days and look forward to it on other days; they see it as a worldwide event between good and evil. But this is, in their own terminology, a "worldly" view closer to the things movies are made of. Tribulation followed by cataclysmic events culminating in the destruction of much of the world. In reality, Armageddon is the battle that takes place in far away Jerusalem. If you live in Brooklyn, you might not even be aware of when it happens unless there's news coverage.

But the problem is, if the WTS says it, they believe it, and that settles it.

47

Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?

by Socrateswannabe in

in acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".

the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).

and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".

Cold Steel

...the author offers clear evidence of contradictions all over the place and makes notes about justice, ethical and moral problems in the Bible from the point of view of someone living in modern times.

The myth of an inerrent Bible is finally, and thankfully, biting the dust. Any time you have humans involved in the transmission of records, there are going to be errors. In another thread, we discussed the fact that a scribe intentionally exchanged the name of Nabonidus with the more famous name of Nebuchadnezzar. Nabonidus was the king that was driven mad for seven years, and thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Bible book of Daniel has now been reconciled with history.

As for justice, ethical and moral problems in the Bible from the point of view of someone living in modern times, we should not be surprised. The Bible itself predicts that the world will become increasingly wicked as the second coming of Christ approaches. "As it was in the days of Noah," the Lord said, "so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man." As Stephen noted before being murdered, the ancient Jews, because of their wickedness, could not see that wickedness because of the twisted mores of their own times. Today, people getting sex change operations, having partial birth abortions and partying to entertainment that our own fathers a hundred years ago would have found filthy and abhorrent. People living in Jerusalem in 600 BC thought they were righteous, and they persecuted Jeremiah and other prophets that were sent to them. And in the days when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem, again, the people saw nothing wrong with their moral behavior.

All I have found on the subject is in a 1994 12/15 pg 24 statement to the effect that Stephan was actually SeEEING Jesus in a vision. Therefore, he wasn't praying to him, he was speaking to him. And somehow, there's a difference.

Actually, there is a difference. Jesus taught his followers to pray to the Father in his name. But as you say, Stephen was reacting to what he was seeing. There are thousands, if not millions, of times when dying people see their friends or relatives before passing. My father saw his mother, and my maternal grandfather saw and spoke to, by name, family members he hadn't thought of in years. I believe that when righteous people pass into the spirit world, that they are met by family members and friends who had passed on. It's like being met at an airport.

It also makes notes regarding the God of destruction and hate of the Old Testament. The same autor of this annotated Bible has a book, I forgot the title, but it documents all the killings commited by God versus those commited by Satan (millions by God versus only Job's family by Satan, countenanced by God of course)

47

Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?

by Socrateswannabe in

in acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".

the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).

and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".

Cold Steel

Cantleave: And join another wacky delusional cult called the Church of the Latter Day Saints!!! Mormon nutter!

People who resort to name calling in lieu of making a point really have no point. But I'll take your statement, such as it is, as a compliment.

Until Pentecost, they don't seem to understand any thing. Acts is the Holy Spirit's time to shine. Stephen is willing to die for something he firmly believes. What he said to the Temple authorities was very provocative and outrageous.

Absolutely. In fact, the apostles were told they could not begin their missions until they had received the Spirit. But I also think the apostles became more cognizant about things after Jesus' 40-day instruction following his resurrection. During that time, they learned the so-called "mysteries" of the Kingdom, which were not written in any of the gospels or other writings. There are numerous writings pertaining to these teachings that were completely unknown until about a century ago when apocraphal writings began to be discovered in Egypt and the Holy Land.

Whether Stephen was provocative and outrageous remains to be seen. Luke states that Stephen simply reminded the Jews of their track record in choosing evil over good, and this culminated with their murder of the Messiah. He recounted how their fathers in every instance killed and persecuted the prophets and were unfaithful to their God. Luke states regarding Stephen: " But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God; and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God! Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord" and stoned him.

The truth is often difficult to take, and Stephen quickly passed from mortality to the spirit world simply because he enraged the Jews. Keep also in mind that the Jews of Stephen's time were some of the most wicked in history. That's why they were destroyed just a few years later during the Roman conquest. That their fathers killed the prophets so angered them that they repeated the deed, going so far as to stop their ears to keep from hearing the truth. Jesus, in fact, had preached the same message in his lifetime.

Luke was quite clear that Stephen's spirit was taken by the Lord at that moment. Not in a resurrection, but just in death. The Jehovah's Witnesses may believe as they wish; however, even though they blame the doctrine of man having a spirit on the Greeks, an idea that later Christians adopted when they debauched the religion, it was something that the ancient Essenes believed. Josephus marvels that this fundamental Jewish sect believed what the Greeks believed: " ...their doctrine is this, that bodies are corruptible...but that the souls are immortal and continue forever: and that they came out of the most subtle air, and are united to their bodies as to prisons...but that when they are set free from the bonds of the flesh, they then, as released from a long bondage, rejoice and mount upward." (Wars of the Jews, ed. E. H. Warmington (London: William Heinemann, 1921), II.8.11)

The Greeks, in fact, shared many eschatological concepts with both Christians and Jews. In the above case, Josephus tells us that the Essenes not only believed that the spirit left man's body at death, but that all men existed as spirits before they came to Earth. The doctrine of premortality also was a first century Christian doctrine. Even Jeremiah, when called by the Lord to be a prophet, was told: "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5) Thus we see that the Lord knew Jeremiah before Jeremiah was born; that he sanctified Jeremiah and ordained him to be a prophet. This does not reflect simply a foreknowledge, but the facts that the Lord knew Jeremiah, sanctified him and ordained him, all before he was born. And the apostles asked Jesus, "Master, who did sin? This man or his parents that he was born blind?" How could the man have sinned before birth if he hadn't existed?

The notion that men are resurrected as spirits presuppose that man has no spirit. When he does in scripture, they believe it's a resurrection. But if Jesus' resurrection was a physical resurrection, and he made it perfectly clear that it was, then why won't our resurrections be physical? This is a question the Adventists fail to adequately answer. Jesus died. During the three days of his death, he visited Paradise and preached to the spirits, later referred to by Peter as "the dead."

And finally, what of all the near death experiences where a wide range of people from nurses, to plumbers to neurosurgeons have had amazingly consistent stories of life after death? In a number of these experiences, people report meeting people they knew before they came to the earth.

47

Did Stephen believe he would have to wait 2000 years for a resurrection?

by Socrateswannabe in

in acts 7:59, the jews were casting stones at stephen and his last words were, "lord jesus, receive my spirit.".

the wts has contended that all of the ancients who died after jesus were in a sleep-like condition, awaiting a resurrection that eventually happened in 1918-1919 (depending upon which wt reference you are looking at).

and in fact, v. 60 says stephen "fell asleep in death".

Cold Steel

If one wants to take a fresh look at the Bible, the best thing to do is start with a fresh piece of paper. The concept of the dead sleeping is not only not biblical, it was something the first century Christians simply didn't believe. If one starts from the premise that one is resurrected a spirit, then the Adventist view of death makes a modicum of sense. But Jesus was not resurrected a spirit, and our resurrections will be after the manner of Christ's. Christ was a spirit before he came to the earth. When he was crucified, his spirit went to Paradise, the realm of the spirits, and preached to the spirits in prison.

Peter states:

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

He also states:

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Peter 4:6)

If the dead are sleeping, how can the gospel be preached to them in the spirit world? The great Christian scholar, Origen, stated what he had heard from those who came years before him: "After death," he says, "I think the saints go to Paradise, a place of teaching, a school of the spirits in which everything they saw on earth will be made clear to them. Those who were pure in heart will progress more rapidly, reaching the kingdom of heaven by definite steps or degrees." (Father Jean Danielou (1955) Origen. Sheed and Ward; see also (1961) From Glory to Glory, Texts from Gregory of Nyssa's Mystical Theology. Introduction by Jean Danielou. Scribners.).

Origen, the greatest scholar of the Third Century, was far closer to the actual events in the New Testament than most of the other early church fathers. And, in fact, he studiously researched the early church and its earliest scholars. In fact he was described as having one foot in the ancient church and the other in the later "early" church. To think this doctrine was changed in the Fourth Century or later just doesn't wash. And Zechariah, in beginning his last three chapters on the battle of Armageddon, writes: " The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord , which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him." (Zech. 12:1) And Paul states: " For I am in a strait between two, having a desire to depart and to be with Christ; which is far better: n evertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you." (Phil. 1:23-24) How can one "abide in the flesh" when one is simply "the flesh" and "breath" and nothing more?

Paul also writes extensively about the reality of a physical resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15. In verse 29 he argues: " Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?" Regardless of whether the Galatians were practicing a legitimate doctrine is moot; the fact that Paul was using it as evidence of the resurrection indicates that if the dead were being preached to, they would be cognizant to make a decision if someone performed the work for them. If the dead slept and were aware of nothing, why would the Galatians baptize others in behalf of them? It would have been the perfect opportunity for him to have condemned the practice and set everyone straight on the state of the dead, only he didn't. He used it as a teaching tool.

Finally, Jesus could not have been clearer about being physically resurrected. His body was gone. Later he appears to the apostles, shows them his wounds, lets them feel those wounds, then eats fish! "For a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see I have." Did the authors leave out the part where he said, "Nah, I'm just kidding. I'm really a spirit...see?"

Adventists have to practice a set standard of denial, and you guys really can't be blamed. You've been brainwashed by some of the most scripturally inept people on the planet! You think Armageddon is Ragnorak, and you deny all the scriptures in the Old and New Testaments that place it in Jerusalem. Jesus returns, but not to the Mount of Olives as the scriptures state, but somewhere else. I see people all the time asking about "Armageddon" as though it were Judgment Day, and the fate of the Saved being a restoration to the sad state Adam and Eve were in before the fall of man. No glory, no purpose, just a meaningless eternal future in a garden.

So, again, if you're going to understand the Bible you have to forget virtually everything you've been taught, read, or thought you've understood. And you should begin by throwing away your New World Translations and using any one of a number of good translations.

Just sayin'....

24

DFing and shunning causes 22-yr old to murder friend

by Scully in

so i was randomly watching a show on investigation discovery today - the show was called killer next door, and the episode was called murder without motive.. the show is a french-canadian program that has been translated into english, and this particular episode had to do with a homicide that took place in ste-croix-de-lotbiniere, near quebec city, in november 1999 of a young man named victor lemay.. the confessed murderer was his friend, andre roy, then aged 22.. in the year or so that preceded the murder, andre roy had been disfellowshipped from the jws and had, as a result, been kicked out of his parents' home.

he had no social support outside of the jws and had to start making new friends.

the psychologists on the program felt very strongly that the shunning he experienced by the jws in general, and his family in particular, contributed to increasing rage, and that his friend, victor, became a convenient outlet for his rage.

Cold Steel

Ritualistic shunning by Jehovah's Witnesses and other extreme religions is not really any different than its blood doctrine or the primitive religions that practice handling rattlesnakes, engaging in honor killing and requiring women to be covered. In each case, power and narrow exegesis rather than love and compassion, are the motivations. Christianity is not about shunning and making people miserable, but relieving their burdens and to commiserate with those whose only infraction might be disagreeing on a point of doctrine! If someone is angry and constantly trying to destroy other peoples' faith in the church, I can understand why members might want to avoid them. But families and friends who ritualistically turn their backs on people because they've been ordered to by petty local officials don't know Christian doctrine or teachings.

Whether someone associates with such is up to the person doing the shunning, not the church elders. Nowhere in scripture are elders or other overseers authorized to create enemies lists and dictate this kind of behavior. It's nothing but mind control coupled with unrighteous dominion. It not only passes dictatorial authority on to elders that they don't have in the scriptures, the verses used by the Jehovah's Witinesses to justify shunning is counsel given to individual members, not direction to local church leaders to make that sort of determination. There's also the element of free agency, because if everything is dictated and micromanaged by elders, there is no free agency. No room to show individual compassion and love.

Jehovah's Witnesses need to reexamine this entire control issue and take back the ability to be free agents unto themselves, because this is what God is all about. It's why God doesn't stop all evil, put an end to poverty, disease and keep wicked men from exploiting those they control. Just the thought of someone dictating to me whether I can associate with a good friend or my family makes my blood boil.